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Thread: steel vengeance

  1. #11
    Again, how you chop can be random, how you grip is not.


  2. #12
    The Gozerian MLaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexus View Post
    Yep, I knew Smitty was Paul Smith... which is really cool, but we are having a discussion about art, right? I wasn't saying Paul was wrong, I just thought he was misunderstanding the context of my comment. But yes, thank you.
    You're arguing with a well known comic book artist about whether or not holding the blade is open to interpretation. The grip is the only thing that was ever mentioned. The grip is literally how the object is aligned to the hand that is holding it. Your assertion was that there was more than one way to skin this particular cat and he was informing you (as he has done again) that this simply isn't the case.

    I can tell you from very real weapons training that if your weapon is in your hand while stabbing or slashing and you are NOT gripping it this way then you are very likely going to lose that weapon and/or injure yourself. Art is subjective but anatomy and physics (the intersection of the talking points of this conversation) really are not.
    I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it. ~Pablo Picasso

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  3. #13
    Noted. I'm wrong.

  4. #14
    Straight Outta a Comic Book [SUPPORTER] Symson's Avatar
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    Sword battle is not random. Having been on the fencing team in college, I can tell you there's a lot of thinking and strategy involved. Depending on my grip and angle of my wrist, the blade can be perfectly straight in line with my arm or perpendicular and any angle In between.

    As an artist, when drawing sword battle, I am the choreographer. So nothing happens randomly.

    PAGE 1
    Good establishing shots for both the present day and flashback. The reader knows where they are at and what's going on.

    Last panel
    The guy barely reacts, so it's hard to tell if that was a swing and a miss or contact was made.


    PAGE 2
    Panel one
    The zombie was right on top of him, where did all this distance between them come from?

    The girl pops out of nowhere. Are we in the same garage or a different location?

    PAGE 3
    Panel one
    Feels like she's using a watergun here.

    PAGE 5
    Three zombie cops attack and are taken out. Who is driving police cars now? The women can only be in one car.

    Last few panels are confusing. Is she driving with her foot? where are they now? We need some transitional panels to let us know the situation or location has changed.
    Inviting 100 artists to celebrate Kirby and Eisner Centennial Tribute Books

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  5. #15
    Let's not play the name game. I can drop the ball with the best of 'em. Let's just stick to the facts...

    Quote Originally Posted by MLaw View Post
    I can tell you from very real weapons training that if your weapon is in your hand while stabbing or slashing and you are NOT gripping it this way then you are very likely going to lose that weapon and/or injure yourself.
    ... and them's the facts.

    Hold the blade at an incorrect angle and you won't cut, you'll slap. Hold the gun at an angle you'll shatter your wrist.

    Even were that untrue there's still the story of the dog and how it follows your pointing. When your character uses a weapon we're telling the reader, "LOOK... over there!" Pointing in two directions will confuse the reader. Confusing the reader is bad juju.

  6. #16
    Straight Outta a Comic Book [SUPPORTER] Symson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    Let's not play the name game. I can drop the ball with the best of 'em. Let's just stick to the facts...
    Smitty is right here. everyone can be wrong.

    I had an occasion where Barry Windsor-Smith came over while I was drawing and told me my foreshortening was wrong. I told him he was wrong. We argued for a few minutes about it. During that time I could feel him going into BWS mode like, “How dare he?” He walked off in a huff, in his British way.

    Now I’ve had plenty of conversations with Barry by that point and always graciously accepted his input. However, this time he was flat out wrong.

    The next day he apologized to me, because he realized he was wrong and thanked me for standing my ground, because most people wouldn’t. I gained a lot more respect for him that day.

    So just because the great ones speak, doesn’t mean every word is golden or the gospel.
    Inviting 100 artists to celebrate Kirby and Eisner Centennial Tribute Books

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  7. #17
    thanks Nexus really appreciate that, Symson im at work at the moment but ill get around to going through the pages you noted, on a side note just saw your post about Windsor smith, its obvious you have a lot of experience, just wondering how the hell do I get my foot in the door at a big publisher. Im looking at my work and while I see there are definitely are areas I need to improve in I feel like my work is good enough, any advice im ****ing desperate!

  8. #18
    The Gozerian MLaw's Avatar
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    Obviously Smitty could've been wrong... but arguing with him without having at the very least a solid visual example to back up your argument is just kinda foolish don'tcha think? I have argued with him about punches as an example.. but at least I showed examples of my point.
    I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it. ~Pablo Picasso

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  9. #19
    Straight Outta a Comic Book [SUPPORTER] Symson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLaw View Post
    Obviously Smitty could've been wrong... but arguing with him without having at the very least a solid visual example to back up your argument is just kinda foolish don'tcha think? I have argued with him about punches as an example.. but at least I showed examples of my point.
    I agree MLaw. Be prepared to back up what you say.

    My first thought about getting critiques is to just be thankful and not defend anything at all. And if you keep hearing the same critiques over and over, it reveals something that has to be worked on.

    How to break into the industry:
    1. Follow the publisher online submission guidelines.
    2. Go to conventions and stand in line to see an editor. Editors are the only ones that hire.
    3. Self-publish.
    4. Get drunk with an editor.
    Inviting 100 artists to celebrate Kirby and Eisner Centennial Tribute Books

    Joining you in the ABCs of faith - Action, Belief and Confidence

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by bedtime143 View Post
    ... how the hell do I get my foot in the door at a big publisher.
    We can't all be Trevor Von Eden or Jim Shooter. I broke in at 27, Hal Foster at 40, Raymond Chandler at 50...

    Without getting into, "but, so-in-so made it" you're not ready for Prime Time yet. You still need to bust yer hump off-Broadway for a while.

    Your biggest weaknesses are perspective and consistency.

    Nothing will make or break you faster than your knowledge of perspective (or the lack thereof) Getting a gun, hand and arm all going to the same VP is a prime example. Look at 5/5 the gun and its shot are pointed in two different directions. These are amateur mistakes.

    Consistency needs to improve both in finish and style.

    Your pages are solid for storyboards or thumbnails (aka things that don't see print) but need to be brought to a professional finish for comics where the printed art is the selling point. The last panel on pg 1 is a prime example; That's not finished.

    You started with Kirby/Romita, swung into Woody/Fritz, now it seems to be Timm/Campbell(?). Influences are great but you need to consolidate and keep them to 1-2 per project and not bounce back and forth between panels such as Sunglass girl on 1/2, zombie cops on page 4, the girls on page 5.

    Keep plugging. You're close.

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