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Thread: Superman pages

  1. #1

    Superman pages

    Hi all, its been a while. Here are superman pages, script by me. And simple script it is.
    Refining my process, still finding inconsistency...brrr, dont like that word.

    I'm working on the last one...splash page of Darkseid. But i've learn so much..i want to move on with a new sequence and keep re working my process over and over.

    Do your worse.


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  2. #2
    Bryan E.Warner's Avatar
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    remember the secret to Superman's Hair Curl...it forms an S I see a lot of hard work...but to me your Superman looses me at the first panel...he appears to be dwarf Stocky....that's just me and it just jumped right out....Keep up the Hard work!
    Keep that Pencil Busy!

  3. #3
    I must have redone that first superman four times...and in the process lose perspective of his head. He looks too cartoonish.

    When filling backgrounds and even parts of the characters, i think thinking in 2d is better and gets the job done.

    Like you said superman's curl is an 'S'. I'm thinking of a little 3D swirl going in and out..its too much analysis for something so small!

    This bad boy will help me get things done...

    [IMG]free image host[/IMG]
    Last edited by bastian; 01-14-2017 at 08:00 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by bastian View Post
    When filling backgrounds and even parts of the characters, i think thinking in 2d is better and gets the job done.
    And that's 99.44% of your trouble. 2D thinking should be, if not impossible, unbearably painful. Bill Watterson talked about this in one of his C&H collections when Calvin woke up in the land of cubism where depth and perspective no longer existed. Having spent a lifetime making perspective his native language, tossing it out made that strip the single hardest thing he'd ever attempted as an artist. And that's for a BIGFOOT strip. 3D thinking is infinitely more important for Superman than for bigfoot. Until 3D thinking is the only way you think, all day, every day, then everything you draw will be wrong.

    The lack of perspective is killing you. If all crotches are on the same line, that line is the horizon and everybody is the same height. That's wrong. Kal may not be the Hulk but, he's larger than the average citizen and larger still than teen-age cub reporter Jimmy Olsen. Using Kal and Jimmy we can properly locate the horizon at the top of the page rather than the bottom. Note how the video guy at right is shorter than teen-age cub reporter Jimmy. This means the videographer is, what... 12 years old? Note how perspective, clean natural shapes, human proportions and a spit curl provide a figure that looks like Superman instead of a bobble-head doll.



    Quote Originally Posted by bastian View Post
    Like you said superman's curl is an 'S'. I'm thinking of a little 3D swirl going in and out..its too much analysis for something so small!
    I call shenanigans! Parting the hair on the left (where it's been for nearly 80 years) will provide the spit curl naturally and without thought. You're going out of your way to waste time and create unnecessary work by drawing incorrectly... on purpose. The spit curl is not small, it's gigantic. It's what makes him Superman. Without it he's just some guy in a bad halloween costume or some creep wearing his kid's pajamas.

    Make sure to leave space for captions and balloons. The interior dotted line is your "cory safe" area. All lettering goes in the blue area and none in the red. The only place you've left for balloons is right on top of your faces. Even in a Marvel method book (where captions and balloons are added after you're done) you have to plan for text and provide space. To leave no space in a DC script (where captions and balloons are provided before you start)...


  5. #5
    Just got my doll today, and planning on using it! Good for drawing the head different angles, and i trimmed off some of his love handles so his legs move further up! And i cut off his cape!

    What do you think of that?! lol.

    The way you layout the first panel is more dynamic. But if i remember correctly back in Greg Capullo's wizard crash courses, and i think true for perspective in general...you can draw a horizontal line across the waist, or chin say, and have figures at various distances. As i did again on the last panel of that page.

    I'm getting the feeling, since we don't see they're feets, you rather opt for something more dynamic. As i think that rule only applies best if we see their full figures or when the distances varies WIDELY enough to clearly see the depth between multiple figures.

    To me that justifies your markup, that makes sense.

  6. #6
    The Gozerian MLaw's Avatar
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    You're misunderstanding the point of Capullo's perspective exercise. The point is, 5 similarly sized figures lined up in a row in perspective (receding to depth) will have a feature that is going to align. This will not always be the waist but will instead be based on what is called the station point.. which is the positioning/angle of the viewer. To me, everything about this says you studied the flash and flourish but never got into the important foundation skills... and to cut straight to it, you seem content with that. I would like to be able to say "you'll never get work like that".. BUT.. the truth is a lot of indies don't care and Marvel's standards have all but disappeared judging by a lot of their recent releases.. That said, your draftsmanship shows talent but you need work on anatomy, perspective, and sequential storytelling. Paul Martin Smith by the way, is a name you should probably google.. or maybe check out his site.. That's actually him..
    I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it. ~Pablo Picasso

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  7. #7
    Yes I understood the exercise. It could be with 5 figures, or 100. It could be from the chin, the crotch or any other "station point". My point is; the figures are too closely at the same dept to use that rule. And without seeing their feet, it makes it worse. I realize that now.

    And no i'm not content. I very much appreciate Paul's critiques. I saw his work.

    Yes my anatomy, perspective and storytelling still needs work, i'm aware. You're welcome to markup something! I see three panels i wish i could omit. But i feel my pencilling is getting better, and would rather move on.

    In the end, my lesson was realizing how better a layout can become with the help of a writer's script. And also, i started reducing the pages to 67%, print and have a look. A light bulb when on...this tells A LOT. I realize to leave more room for captions and bubbles, as Paul mention; and to not congest so much. And overall, this will help me observe the whole page and draw more quickly, gesturally, not dwell in the small details.

  8. #8
    The Gozerian MLaw's Avatar
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    Sorry but I really don't have much freetime for drawovers these days, but I will pass on some advice I was given by editors that reviewed me at SDCC in 2011 that I think will help you solve some of your problems.
    Simplify. If you have 2 or 3 panels that are all basically the same (ie. continuation of a conversation) and there's no major story beats, collapse that into 1 panel. Also, with changing angles all over the place, that can be really distracting. They described it like a camera in a movie. It's okay to have one or two wild perspectives (ie. bird's eye, worm's eye, dutch angle, etc) but when it's all over the place it can be hard to stay focused on the story and it makes your job as an artist more difficult. Save the angles like that for trying to convey specific messages. They also expressed to me pretty bluntly that it's a sure sign of someone who is still figuring things out. Don't take that as "don't draw perspective".. everything should be drawn in perspective at all times. However, understanding the difference between a subtle 1 point and a fisheye 3 or whatever.. is more the message.
    I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it. ~Pablo Picasso

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bastian View Post

    The way you layout the first panel is more dynamic. But if i remember correctly back in Greg Capullo's wizard crash courses, and i think true for perspective in general...you can draw a horizontal line across the waist, or chin say, and have figures at various distances. As i did again on the last panel of that page.

    I'm getting the feeling, since we don't see they're feets, you rather opt for something more dynamic. As i think that rule only applies best if we see their full figures or when the distances varies WIDELY enough to clearly see the depth between multiple figures.
    That's not my layout, it's yours. You placed Kal, you placed Jimmy and, therefore, you placed the horizon. The difference between our drawings is you then decided to ignore the horizon and draw everything incorrectly. My version isn't more "dynamic", it's simply not wrong. You go on to assign a new horizon for every object and character which you, again, ignore. You have a minimum of 9 horizons in the first shot. Only one can be correct.

    Your "reading" of Capullo's crash course is correct under 2 conditions: Everyone is the same size (they're not) or everyone is on a different plane (they're not) Go back and read the course again.

    Forget the feet, they have nothing to do with the discussion. The dog did not eat your homework, you chose to leave your homework undone.

    The last panel is just as smurfed as every other panel. The parking structure (purple) places the horizon in the middle. Kal and Jimmy (blue) places the horizon at bottom. Kal and Lois (red) place the horizon at top. If we used Lois and Jimmy, we'd get a 4th horizon.



    Perspective is two arbitrary choices with everything else being carved in stone. You can choose any two items from any of your panels and call them correct but, no matter which two you choose, everything else in the panel becomes incorrect... every time. In this instance; consistancy bad.

    Your concept of perspective is to place arbitrarily slanted lines behind incorrectly drawn figures. That's the opposite of perspective. Few editors will be able to see and graph your mistakes as easily as I can but, even the greenest editor will, in an uncanny valley sort of way, reject the work as being weird, unsettling, creepy and hand your assignment to another artist.

    Andrew Loomis' Figure Drawing and Successful Drawing (long considered the bibles of comics drawing) are back in print and have excellent chapters on perspective but, Loomis will tell you to really understand it, start with Ernest Norling's Perspective Made Easy.

    Nothing will make or break your career faster than your knowledge of perspective. Without it, everything you draw will be wrong.

  10. #10
    Thanks Mlaw. I can see on some panels i'm purposefully making angles which isn't necessary to the story. I see what you mean. And i decided to do the construction work with my pencil and light pad instead of my pen display. I think my construction will look more refined, and its just as fast.

    SDCC...nice. I visited SD couple years ago. Saw the big zoo. Its a pretty chill city.

    This may i'm attending the Megacon in Orlando. I showed my portfolio to a few professionals already, but i'm hoping some of the big names who rarely comes to Canada will be there.
    Last edited by bastian; 01-15-2017 at 08:00 PM.

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