Ugh! It seems that I'm not much successful with this!
You're right in everything. It has actually been my fault if I have done what the script said instead of what is owed. The writer tells you what has to happen on every page, but the one responsible for a correct storytelling is me, and I have not decided to make changes so that all would have worked better. In fact, in the comic book that was published with this script by Andy Diggle, every page is quite different from what was in the script. I'm sure that even remaining faithful to the script it is possible to do it better than I have done, but I think in the case of this particular page being so strict does not help.
Actually, right now I'm a bit blocked, I have no clear idea about how to solve the page. I will consider your suggestions but I will try to contribute something more, I do not want to do only what you indicate in the correction image because in this cyber dimension I've got you to help me, but in real life I will not be able to count on anyone when I have to do the work!
I hate to leave something wrong half done, but I'm afraid I will not be able to fix this mess soon. I just started with the next issue of a comic that I do every year at this time. I will try to go arranging everything (even the previous pages) in gaps I find.
Have decided to start uploading pages here is the right decision. Being a lone wolf working from home and think you're doing it all right doesn't take you out of your comfort zone and you can not get help from others who know more than you, like here. Today I feel a bit frustrated. But I think all this is really working for something.
Well, now I feel bad
People post stuff, people share comments and that's all it is. No one is obligated to follow the thoughts of others. Think of it as watching film after the game: here's the good stuff, here's the bad stuff but, you don't replay the game, the game is over. You watched film to determine what you will and won't do in the next game.
You're only as good or bad as your last page, book, project. If you botch the one you're working on (which we all do all the time) suck it up, finish it off, put it aside and start another page. As soon as it's finished, THAT'S the page you're judged by... until you do another.
I only pick on you because of the potential I see. Take the night off, get drunk, wrestle a bear, go out at 3 in the morning and do something stupid, wake up fresh... Tomorrow is another day.
It was just a momentary crisis. Don't feel bad. You are helping me a lot, A LOT, thank you very much for the time you spend correcting and answering all of our messages.
I managed to gain some time in the evenings from next week on. The momentary crisis of yesterday was an accumulation of thoughts, not only the bad page done, but the fact that I'd like to develop my skills faster, but without time to practice it seems impossible.
Last edited by Almayer; 10-21-2016 at 02:16 AM.
Reason: Too personal and stupid. Won't happen again.
I've been reading other threads and I found something interesting here http://www.penciljack.com/forum/show...39-short-story
In Smitty's last comment he says: "Show-Don't tell; Action-Full figure...". So I was wondering if is there any thread here at penciljack with a compilation of rules of thumb to have in mind when layouting a page, something like a list of them, just to avoid draw them by instinct and fail. It would be interesting and very useful!
And about Action-Full figure, I think I don't understand what's the exact problem with the last panel of page 6 pencils (ok, first of all it is not a full figure...), but I think I don't understand exactly what Smitty means with this phrase: "Because you have no break between silhouettes, you have a static pose rather than a slice of action." Correct me if I'm wrong: if the bad guy was falling (and separated from the Bat) as a reaction of the kick then the drawing would look as action, and then it would be correct? Is that the problem?
Then another question about the same panel: Why full figure? And why always? I'm sure we can break the rule every now and then (ok, I know that to break the rules I, first of all have to know the rules, and second, the silhouette of the figures would have been broken). But, I have been looking to comics and found this example (Panel 2; again, García-López...):
It is not full figure and the silhouettes of the bad guy on the right and Batman could be confusing, I think, because the guy figure is overimposed to Batman's; The other guy's silhouette is apart from the Bat so it would be fine, isn't it?
I always say this comments with maximum respect to the author, just to understand and learn, of course.
Last edited by Almayer; 10-22-2016 at 12:23 PM.
Batman Confidential sample in progress
I'm somewhat confused as well to the same stuff Al mentions..
Although I can see Al's last panel is static.. I first felt it's because of the poses (for example, they are very balanced compared to the example's out of whack poses)+ flat camera angle... but it seems there are more things involved...
ready to learn...
Last edited by humble-tomato; 10-21-2016 at 09:20 AM.
You're right humble-tomato. The flat camera angle is something that I can see is wrong; I must risk more! The problem with the balance however I haven't seen it until you pointed it. Thanks! But let's wait for an expert's answer.
Here's the floorplan I had in mind. Well, it is wider than depicted in the pages, but I've drawn it to get the idea of the space, I'm no architect. I've added the stools (instead of the chairs suggested) in front of the kitchen's hatch. The kitchen has a doorway, but no door in fact. There's an armchair in the living room (not seen in the panels), but no TV. The cradle is the main problem here: I want it to be seen from the living room just the way it's seen in the pages, and I have not moved it to be near the wall because there's another wardrobe/closet there. It is difficult to open the door, but this is a cheap, grimy apartment, rented by the prostitute that's dead over the carpet, as it's written in the script, so I think if it is not perfectly displayed and decorated it gives verisimilitude.
I'm sure there are things that have slightly different position in the pages, and that I haven't done the perfect work with the place depiction. I must have done this plan before, for sure. Do you see something more that does not work?
Which shot better shows a hard kick?
In your latest JLGL example, let's look at the first panel first. Action, full figure on 3 of 4 characters with enough to see figure 4 is kneeling. We know where everyone is. Now, in panel 2 we don't ask why Batman is kicking a little person. We know he's full size and on his knees because it was established.
You established Batman 2 rooms away and behind the villain. Next he's moved 3 rooms (kitchen, living room, bedroom) in front of the villain giving him a tummy tickle. When did he become Nightcrawler? When did he start tickling killers?
Cropping an action shot won't kill you but, it could kill your story. Exciting images are not the goal, we want clear illustrations of exciting ideas.
Clear as water. My bad english makes me understand it better with images. Sorry, you were forced to draw to explain. Thanks!
Yes, the first panel of my example... So clumsy on my part.
I'm reading a lot of books these days:
- "Perspective for comic book artists" by David Chelsea
- "Perspective made easy" by Ernest R. Norling
- "Understanding comics" and "Making comics" by Scott McCloud
"Making comics" is especially clarifying. Be clear is key to make a good comic. I'm doing sterile attempts with some of my panels, as you point with every reply, and not just because they're confusing, there are more things involved. I'll try to pay more attention in what I draw and disturb a little less.Thank you for coming back.
Last edited by Almayer; 10-24-2016 at 11:54 AM.